Build talk:Team - Vanquishing Elementalists

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ok this is my 1st ever poast...the build looks out standing...one thing i will say, what about using the Kurzick skill to move the spirits? --Davidsheart 00:28, 15 November 2007 (CET)

That might be a good idea, but nobody has a secondary profession of ritualist and nobody can change because everybody's secondary profession is essential to the ability for the team to work. --- Ressmonkey (talk) 00:42, 15 November 2007 (CET)

It's pve, no problem waiting for recharge. Lord Belar 00:46, 15 November 2007 (CET)

That too, and the recharge is 30, 40, or 15 seconds, but w/e. --- Ressmonkey (talk) 00:57, 15 November 2007 (CET)

Contents 1 i think it sucks alot 2 Slow and inefficient, and requires much of 1 class 3 This could REALLY use a few snares... 4 SF Way 5 the bonder 6 Yoda! 7 Why? 8 Skills 9 Ranger 10 Paragon City's Vote 11 Optionals?? 12 Suggestion 13 My rating 14 Notes on the build 15 SoL

[edit] i think it sucks alot

first off all since u have 16 earth magic,y not bring stoneflesh aura for the tanks?second,i dont not think 5 people need to tank,y not keep 2-3 tanks and bring in a sf nuker or a ss necro,etc,for more dps.the "seed of life monk" will not heal worth a shit for such areas with chilabins or large amounts of attackers,consider bringing heat party and glyph of lesser energy,healing seed as a cover or secondary to seed of life,heal other or infuse health,etc so the monk will be actually useful.this build is obviously without a doubt very very slow and weak,make updates to it as it is currently a non profitable build

Profit, who the hell wants profit? Second, what the hell is chillblains gonna do, stay with the times, chillblains is targeted, and this is the safest build you will ever run so screw the 2-3 tanks SS and nukers thing. --- Ressmonkey (talk) 16:02, 17 November 2007 (CET)

Its now about profit. Its about "Vanquishing".Devintomb1 +talk 16:50, 17 November 2007 (CET)

Exactly, and I think u meant "Its not about..." --- Ressmonkey (talk) 16:55, 17 November 2007 (CET)

I'm not sure you understand how the build is meant to work. Here you have 5 eles that can run around with impunity, not worry about agro, and just concentrate on spamming damage (and other than obsidian flesh, mantra of frost, and an armor skill, everything else is optional). They have 75% constant dmg reduction, +97 armour, and party wide healing whenever _any_ of them are hit. Also, the squishies supporting the party can stay waaaay out of agro range while still doing their job. I haven't run this, but I don't think peace and harmony and succor are really needed, but they can't hurt. The seed of life monk could take over succor, and life barrier may be more useful than peace and harmony for the bond monk; with that on and 16 prot prayers, 16 earth and 10 inspiration, eles should be taking 2.5% of the damage a 60 armor ele would take (probably overkill, but fun nonetheless =P).

Succor and Peace and Harmony are used for use on the Seed of Life monk because seed of life must be used every 6 seconds, and both it and glyph of renewal cost 6 energy, whihc is 12 energy every 6 seconds or 2 energy a second. This is 6 energy regen, so both of them and br must be maintained for the Seed monk to have enrgy. Other than that, u got everything right :) --- Ressmonkey (talk) 22:36, 17 November 2007 (CET)

[edit] Slow and inefficient, and requires much of 1 class

Just run a SY para/sin and 2 monks then real firepower (sw rits, nukers, ss, ect) — Skakid9090 16:58, 17 November 2007 (CET)

This is a cooler way to do it. --- Ressmonkey (talk) 17:16, 17 November 2007 (CET)

why not just run mystic regen and stonflesh aura instead of the asura skill and mantra of frost? and the main downfall to this build is DP

If anybody ever dies, somebody screwed up big time. --- Ressmonkey (talk) 20:24, 17 November 2007 (CET)

[edit] This could REALLY use a few snares...

Since everything is going to flee the AoE in HM. Or does their boosted movement speed count as an unnaturally buffed speed for Churning? --Mafaraxas 17:55, 17 November 2007 (CET)

Yeah, it does. --Mala 18:01, 17 November 2007 (CET)

Churning KD's so 5 people using it every 18 second (halves rechage due to QZ) means a nice constant stream of kds on enemies. --- Ressmonkey (talk) 18:08, 17 November 2007 (CET)

[edit] SF Way

Now, go run 6 SF ele's. Hide-And-Seek 19:50, 17 November 2007 (CET)

Totally different from this build... SF doesnt allow for obsidian flesh, so enchant remival will own your team. --- Ressmonkey (talk) 19:51, 17 November 2007 (CET)

This is very inneficient. I dont care how "cool" it is. It doesnt work very well and takes forever. Beast194(talk) 05:32, 18 November 2007 (CET)

[edit] the bonder

P&H on such a pro build makes me smile, but are you sure it's not a better alternative out there? Seb2net 11:01, 18 November 2007 (CET)

never mind, I just realized what it's for. Seb2net 11:01, 18 November 2007 (CET)

[edit] Yoda!

"Continue doing this until victory your team has."

Hahah awesome. -StarSeeker | My talk 12:38, 18 November 2007 (CET)

And just so you know, in real life I actually say things like that. --- Ressmonkey (talk) 02:43, 21 November 2007 (CET)

Don't you mean, say things like that in real life I do? --Mafaraxas 07:18, 21 November 2007 (CET)

Hahahah xD Yoda talk ftw. -StarSeeker | My talk 19:09, 21 November 2007 (CET)

[edit] Why?

This build is just plain... Eh? All you need is like 1-2 tanks, a bunch of nukers, and 2 monks. Slap Deep Freeze on a few nukers and "splabow!" You have a vanquishing party. Don't bring 5 tanks that can only deal "eh" damage... and a ranger that is really quite pointless when any tank can do better... --GuildofDeals 16:29, 18 November 2007 (CET)

People can die if you have 2 tanks and stuff. Death is bad. Dont die, use this build. --- Ressmonkey (talk) 17:16, 18 November 2007 (CET)

[edit] Skills

Ok. I noticed that this build has two skills that suck alot in the wrong areas. 1.Mantra of Frost. It says this is designed to vanquich areas. But where? Mostly in the shiverpeaks? Make that skill a variant. 2. Peace and Harmony. This SKil sucks. That's it. If it didn't have any recharge time then it would be alright but this takes 10 seconds. Chances are as soon as you use it, it ends. Was it just the only elite skill you had unlocked for a monk, and so that's what you put in? Fire Tock 15:07, 19 November 2007 (CET)

I would guess Peace and Harmony is there to allow the monks to maintain one additional enchantment, this counts for both the Bonder and Seed of life Monk. It also allows some extra energy management to the other party members. Regarding Mantra of Frost, Greater Conflagration and Wither in combination turns all damage (both elemental and physical) into frost damage. GOmgDLolIEliteSTalk 15:57, 19 November 2007 (CET)

Seriously dude, look at the build before you start complaining. First of all. Mantra of Frost is, as Godliest said, for Winter and Greater Conflagration, and is made out of awesome. Second, this build actually uses P&H effectively and should get credit just for that. Aside from that, it helps and is needed with the delicate energy managment this build needs to basically... Never die. -StarSeeker | My talk 18:14, 19 November 2007 (CET)

completely agree. you were just quicker editing than me. Also, why being so offensive (about the "only skill unlocked") ? Unneccessary and uncalled for. Did you understand the mechanics behind this build ? I think not... Hoschi

And just so u know, my monk has elite skill hunter. --- Ressmonkey (talk) 21:36, 19 November 2007 (CET)

[edit] Ranger

Can i suggest getting the ranger to take symbiosis maybe? increases health on everyone a crap load with all the bonding and stuff, meaning the eles are near invinciable, and enemies are going to have a lot less enchatments on them (even if they do they're still lsoing health easier), and maybe consider energizing wind to help counter additional energy costs from QZ. One other thing, maybe get it so one of the eles puts a couple of points into water for a snarer (for a good snare i mean, so take like deepfreeze forzen burst, ice spikes, and such). Just a thought. Also back to ranger (just thought of this) maybe lose BR make them para secondary and ge them to take something like song of power or some skills like that, party wide energy ,managment?. PheNaxKian (T/c) 21:44, 19 November 2007 (CET)

All good ideas, but none that work, except maybe the snarer. The thing with symbiosis: the elementalists can have 457 (that would be dealt to a 60 AL) damage dealt to them and nothing will happen, even if only one of them is getting attacked, so symbiosis will only help the enemy, unfortunatley. Energizing wind 1) got nerfed, and 2) would decrease the recharge of QZ and Glyph of Renewal, which would destroy this build. As for the snarer, I may consider it, but the only snare that would really beneeded is deep freeze as its snaring power is independant from water magic. For paragon shouts and chants, a person must be within earshot. If the ranger is within earshot of the eles, youve got a big problem. Also, shouts and chants arent affected by expertise, while BR is, which is nice. --- Ressmonkey (talk) 21:58, 19 November 2007 (CET)

[edit] Paragon City's Vote

It is totally impossible to get overwhelmed. In fact, killing 4000000 things would be preferable (If your comuters didnt die) as more energy for everybody. It is impossible to get overwhelmed because Seed of Life triggers on damage, so whwnever somebody takes damage, healing for everybody. And because the eles have 142 armor (insignias + armor of earth), take 42% less damage ebcause of mantra of frost, and take half damage because of life bond, it would take a monster hitting over 450 on a 60 AL target to make a dent in 1 eles health. --- Ressmonkey (talk) 21:41, 20 November 2007 (CET)

And to guid of guild's vote: seed of life is not useless if u can permanatly maintain it on a bonder. --- Ressmonkey (talk) 23:25, 20 November 2007 (CET)

[edit] Optionals??

ter are so many optionals here, and it doesnt explain what to put in them (except for ele). are we just supposed to put in watever we want....?? Cnk3 01:47, 21 November 2007 (CET)

Or just nothing. I cannot figure out any skills to put there that may be beneficial to the team. maybe resses, but otherwise doesnt matter. --- Ressmonkey (talk) 01:53, 21 November 2007 (CET)

[edit] Suggestion

I think it would make sense (having seen votes) that you make it so ther's only 2 OF eles, then have 3 damage dealers (SF might be an idea, SS might be usefull etc.) just a thought.PheNaxKian (T/c) 16:43, 21 November 2007 (CET)

Then you have 3 people supporting 2 other people. Anyways, those other 3 damage dealers woould be fleshy and sueceptible to enchntment removal. --- Ressmonkey (talk) 16:55, 21 November 2007 (CET)

Make them mesmer secondary-get them to take mntra of frost (that reduces damage), then perhaps if you have eles have an attunment, or have your SoL monk to take something like vigorus spirit, it's cheap recharges quickly and lasts 30 secs, so it will provide as a cover enchantment at least.PheNaxKian (T/c) 16:58, 21 November 2007 (CET)

True, but i like invincibility :) --- Ressmonkey (talk) 17:07, 21 November 2007 (CET)

As much as i lvoe it myself-i'm thinking about how you can get this to better than "other", i think it's a fantastic build, and would try it myself but i can't run any of the builds (yet), and it would take a lot of time and orgonization. Just consider it.PheNaxKian (T/c) 17:10, 21 November 2007 (CET)

Personally, I have no problem with a borderline good, other build. But I apreciate the suggestions and will consider them. --- Ressmonkey (talk) 17:14, 21 November 2007 (CET)

It's a good build, but I would probably run it with active heals and prots to prevent dying from boredom. 76.182.200.38 23:33, 10 December 2007 (CET)

[edit] My rating

You requested I remove my "bad" rating. I won't, for these main reasons:

• Where in the world will you just pop up with all these elementalists, ranger, and monks? It's a very... odd build, and scowering around guildies and friends is annoying. And, like me, some people don't have a large guild or friends list, so there's no way in Hell they'd just find these guys sitting around.
• Do we REALLY needed 5 tanks? I mean, sure the tanks do damage, but is plainly not great damage. I want to vanquish an area quickly, not in 5 hours
• You can just make a team of this: 4 SH Eles with Deep Freeze on 1-2 of them, 2 Obsidian Tanks, and 2 Monks. BAAAM!! LOTS OF DAMAGE! LOTS MORE DAMAGE THEN THIS!! YAY!! Anyway, just look at your generic DoA build. That's great for vanquishing too.
• Seed of Life does give nice healing... But for a very short time. Even with GoR, it still is only "eh"
• The damage may be "good," but having 5 Elementalists spamming Flare is still around 300 DPS.
• AoE Scatter: No snare will just make the already "jumpy" HM creatures run around like headless chickens, or Harpies, depending on what you're fighting.

Side note, I made (or will be) some edits to the build. Just "Wikifying" stuff along with basic capatilization, grammer, etc.

Good night and good luck. --GuildofDeals 22:22, 21 November 2007 (CET)

Glyph of Renewal means you can keep up Seed indefinitely with an enchanting mod. Creatures will get pretty much non-stop KD because of multiple Churning Earth and natural speed buff in HM. I couldn't really answer to the necessity of 5 tanks, though. --Mafaraxas 22:48, 21 November 2007 (CET)

Also, I never said that you should remove your vote. I support your vote as a member of the community. I was simply pointing out the flaws in the logic to help persuade other members of the community to not vote as u did. --- Ressmonkey (talk) 22:50, 21 November 2007 (CET)

And thanks for fixing the bad stuff on the bild page. --- Ressmonkey (talk) 22:51, 21 November 2007 (CET)

No, i asked him to remove his vote and i explained why it was loldumb only to get the same loldumb arguments here, also the flare spam argument made me lol. Edwina Elbert*t*c* 10:56, 22 November 2007 (CET)

I HATE spelling errors, I don't know why... I think I was traumatized by some spelling error or something... Anyway, still, I think there's better alternatives. --GuildofDeals 23:48, 21 November 2007 (CET)

OK :) --- Ressmonkey (talk) 23:52, 21 November 2007 (CET)

Sorry, I won't "GTFO" and my point is valid. The damage is plain inferior to that of nukers, tanks, and monks. Also, watch out, that came pretty close to a personal attack (NPA Policy) --GuildofDeals 13:42, 22 November 2007 (CET)

Who had the NPA attack? --- Ressmonkey (talk) 14:20, 22 November 2007 (CET)

Edwina Elbert, I guess. -StarSeeker | My talk 15:10, 22 November 2007 (CET)

No1 said gtfo.--Victoryisyours (talk/pvxcontribs) 16:31, 22 November 2007 (CET)

He left me a message on my talk page unvolving "GTFO" hence my usage here. Take a look at my Talk if you wanna see it. --GuildofDeals 17:31, 22 November 2007 (CET)

Tellin sum1 to gtfo aint rly a personal attack lolchill, also if u have something to do with me take it on one of our talk pages, not here Edwina Elbert*t*c* 20:16, 22 November 2007 (CET)

[edit] Notes on the build

Since some people don't understand how the build works, I wanted to summarize some of the main points:

• There aren't many skills that prevent spells from being cast (VoS, Spellbreaker, etc.) and Obsidian Flesh is probably the most useful since you can also use Earth Magic skills.
• Churning Earth KDs foes in HM, due to their increased movement, therefore preventing kiting.
• The Elementalists boast extra armor from Hydromancer's, 62 armor, 42% damage reduction, and damage split in half.
• Quickening Zephyr allows the ranger to keep the team moving because they will not have to wait for a recharge, and the eles can spam Churning Earth, who have excellent energy managment.
• Greater Conflagration and Winter turns all physical and elemental damage into cold damage, while the eles are using Mantra of Frost.
• The Seed of Life monk provides a party-wide heal that counters any damage the eles are taking.
• An advantage of this build is that all the support can stay out of aggro range without worry.
• The bonder will be able to keep up all 8 enchantments indefinitely.
• Energy management is taken care of through so many skills, it won't be a problem if a battle gets a little stretched.
• Slow and steady wins the race.

I'd like to note that the ranger probably isn't required because the eles can use Stone Striker and Mantra of Earth, as in Terra Tanks. However, a support Paragon is out of the question, and option to explore would probably be a Life Barrier Bonder or BiP necro.--Relyk 18:18, 23 December 2007 (EST)

Thanks for the help in that summary. Also, my reasoning for the ranger is that QZ will be required ayways for a constant Seed of Life, so why not use winter/greater conflagration in order to free up a skill on the eles bars. --- Ressmonkey (talk) 13:40, 30 December 2007 (EST)

[edit] SoL

didnt it get nerfed and you cant maintain it permanately nemore Howe304 08:19, 17 June 2008 (EDT)

Nope, this build was made after the nerf. With QZ, the recharge on Glyph of Renewal becomes 5 seconds, meaning it can be used every 6. That means seed of life can be used every 6. At 4 seconds or more (4 * 1.2 * 1.37 = 6.57, rounded 7), it can be maintained. --- Ressmonkey (talk) 13:51, 17 June 2008 (EDT)